We meet Dr Francis Goh - academic, author and CEO. In a storied career Dr Francis Goh has been an innovator and technical expert. A strategist, board ember, leadership mentor and sought after public Speaker. He tells us about how he wanted to be an engineer rather than an IT professional, but fell into the industry as a strategist after completing an MBA. He describes his subsequent career as a serious of pivots that lead him to where he needs to be - solving problems with a mixture of technical and business skills, creating an innovation pathway that elevates organizations. Francis speaks of his pride in the book he wrote to distill these ideas, and advises those just starting out to accept change as a constant.
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Matt Egan (
.413) Hello, hello, hello and welcome to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in IT and we learn from them what makes them tick by focusing only on their firsts.
I'm your host, Matt Egan, asking you to enjoy, like and subscribe wherever you find us. And if you are an interesting person in IT, do let us know. You might be the next First Person. The next voice you hear will be today's guest. He is Dr.
Francis Goh, academic author and CEO. In a storied career, Dr. Francis Goh has been an innovator and technical expert a strategist, board member, leadership mentor and sought after public speaker. He is, as you can tell, absolutely one of the most interesting people in IT.
We'd like to have him as a guest on First Person. So Francis, welcome. And first of all, what is the first thing people should know about you? Dr Francis Goh (
.522) Well, a very good morning, afternoon and evening wherever you are. My name is Francisco. I'm based in Singapore. But well, I think there's something interesting about me would be so far I've been to 68 countries and live in eight of them.
And I think I'm looking for my ninth country to work and live in. Matt Egan (
.765) Wow, that is interesting. And it makes me feel so deeply untraveled when I hear someone say something like that. And also, sincere thanks for joining us.
You should know, viewers and listeners, that it is very late at night for Francis, but he has made the time to speak with us today and we really appreciate that.
So given that and knowing all of these things, let's move on to our first section, which we call First Things First. And this is where we get to know about our guests by understanding some of their first times.
So I am fascinated to ask you, Francis, about Dr Francis Goh ( .822) Ha Matt Egan (
.035) your first job in this industry. Dr Francis Goh (
.546) Well, it's an interesting question. reason because I was, my original intent of my career was not in tech. In fact, I I hate everything about tech because in my school days, in my university days, I actually hate tech so much that I chose the mechanical engineering.
And I wanted to be an engineer to be away from the one and zeros. But I spent my first five years as an engineer. Matt Egan ( .845) Right.
Dr Francis Goh (
.578) But interesting, then my first job in tech was in Accenture as a strategy consultant. And how I got into that is because during my couple of years in engineering, I decided that I wanted to have a balanced career.
So besides having an engineering degree, I began to pursue an MBA and that got me interested in strategy. And my thesis was also about strategy development. So when the opportunity came from Accenture, Matt Egan ( .307) Right.
.006) on the strategy consultant, I jump on it. Matt Egan (
.715) Yeah, it's interesting that like a lot of people we speak to in this series from all around the world, they have engineering or maths backgrounds and then they move into technology.
And then another theme that we always get is the very successful people, they manage to combine technical chops with business and strategy knowledge. Right. So it seems to me like very early in your career, actually, you've collected all of those things together.
So you go into Accenture, you're working in in strategy, is an IT focused role. Was this the first time that you thought you'd land in the right place? Was it immediately like a good spot for you to be in? Dr Francis Goh ( .022) You know what?
I'm, I love to be in a very dis, uh, you know, uh, uncomfortable situation. And I realized that today, one of the key skills sets is to be constantly be comfortable with this, with discomfort because the world is changing so much.
then the, you need the rapid change, the change in dynamics of the whole flux about industry. takes someone to be really be very agile. Matt Egan ( .083) Right.
Matt Egan ( .965) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
.831) in the mindset as well as the perspective in many things.
So for me, the first ending into Accenture as a strategy consultant was something that, and I always get very uncomfortable with all the roles I've been, but I think I'm used to it and I kind of like it because it sort of pursue and pushed me a lot to learn and being curious and learn something is something that's really up in my blood.
Matt Egan ( .502) huh.
Matt Egan ( .438) Yeah.
So you've got this is, you know, we're building a real picture here because you've got the engineering background, you've got the strategic and business knowledge that you'd get from an MBA, but also this self-knowledge that you need to be uncomfortable and constantly learning to succeed. Right.
And clearly you did succeed. you know, so what was there a time in that period, the first time maybe where you thought through that discomfort, but you thought, yeah, I'm I'm good at this. I can really do this. Dr Francis Goh (
.968) Well, you know what? I don't know.
I have an opinion that no one can really be good at absolutely good at something because, in every thing that we do or every role that we play, particularly in the industry, solving a problem or helping a client, I think there's so much intertwined.
Matt Egan ( .86) Yes.
.278) of the, I call it the synergies and the dynamism of, of the things that's happened. It's difficult to call yourself an absolute expert.
However, but that doesn't mean that one cannot be, but I used to joke, know, when I was, whenever I have been introduced on the stage, I say, look, Francis, an expert in AI data.
When I come on the stage and I always like to say this, and I got a lot of nodding is this, I said, Matt Egan ( .667) Yeah.
.084) Well, I'm not an expert, but even if I was, it would be up to yesterday because whatever's published and rolled out, you and I are looking and reading the same thing. So we are sort of on par. Matt Egan ( .621) Yeah.
.533) Yeah, no, love that. And actually having that self-knowledge to know that there is always something else to learn. I mean, it's so critical in this industry, right? Because we're in a permanent industrial revolution.
And, the day you say, right, I've nailed this, I know it, is, I think, a day when you need to be concerned. So, you beautifully put and thank you for that insight.
I wonder about, you know, we talked about the job in IT, the first job in IT being at Accenture and like, Again, I can't even begin to list the many senior roles you've got.
You've got a very senior role of NTT these days as well as other things that you do. What was the pathway between that position and where you are now? Could you just give us some flavour about how you developed and moved forward to reach these senior roles?
.79) So maybe I can tell you the story of my evolution. I call it evolution because I did a lot of pivots in my career. And I think today, pivots is the natural being of anyone that come into the workforce.
So I started, as I mentioned, as an engineer. My first role is a strategy consultant. But very soon, I realized that the glory and the luster in tech industry Matt Egan ( .068) Yes!
.852) I always shine with the sales folks, you know, and I thought, you know what, I don't want to be continued to be forever a strategy consultant. Those guys over there are getting the glory of closing deals, celebrating big deals.
So I started to poke around and I landed up in a couple of roles in tech sales. I was leading Asia Pacific, the roles in Microsoft in sales and Microsoft consulting services. Matt Egan ( .584) Mm-hmm.
.655) also in HB Hilo Packet Consulting Services. And in the mix with sales, I also had a couple of stints as a CEO and country manager of Singapore for a couple of companies. One of them is Fujitsu and the other one is Mercer.
So as you can see, there's a bit of a slight tweak, pivots from hardcore strategy consulting towards sales and country management. But the biggest pivot was when I⦠came out from corporate and started my own company as an entrepreneur. Because I didn't see it coming.
I wasn't prepared in a sense because I was in my mid 40s. I had to make a decision to do something that I really wanted. A year before I came out from Microsoft, I started a company name and it just got registered with no business model.
And I just remember I even have a name cut as black in color with cursive writing. It looks like a⦠I look like the owner of nightclub, you know.
So, because there was no plan for anything, but as soon as that got out, I began to bust it away. And very soon within about a year, because during that year, I began to really immerse myself. That was the mid 2015, 2016.
And I was beginning to immerse myself. At the time there was a lot of startups, know, movement going on. I began to really poke into what the startups are doing. Matt Egan ( .81) Yeah.
.444) you know, lot of VCs are pouring money, investments into these successful ventures.
So those couple of years was a formative year for me, in discovering who I was and I came up with a business model of a consulting firm, boutique consulting firm, offering what I was good at, what I love, my passion about. and my background.
then people, actually people define me when they, when when it's at that time, when they speak to me, they'll say, Hey, Francis, come speak to us. You had, you know, you have a good two decades in tech. had HR because you were CEO of Mercer.
And then you could do sales. We like that combination. So come and help us to figure out how our go-to-market strategy. And I'm a strategist basically. So with that, my boutique consulting firm was with a solutions around human capital. digital transformation strategy, innovation and customer experience.
I discovered customer experience somewhat about 10 years ago and it was amazing because I began to think very deeply that all the KPIs that we all been basher on, everyone of us in sales like revenue, bottom line efficiencies, if you were to really have something, a strategy to encapsulate to achieve all these.
Matt Egan ( .304) Mm-hmm.
.894) I came to the conclusion that customer experience strategy, customer experience or CX and capture the whole flavor because customers are the ones that that provides the revenue.
Customers are the ones that tell you, the process is too long and I don't want to be doing this with the going through your internal processes. Customers are the ones that give you the margins because they are willing to pay more and give you that.
Then I went deeper into it. What is CX? What does CX means? And I discovered that there's a lot of deep insights about CX includes strategy, innovation, metrics of measurement, culture, design, and many, many pillars.
So long story short, I became certified, became very good at it, even volunteered in many areas as a speaker. And finally I got invited. Matt Egan ( .75) Mm-hmm.
.76) I'm very honored to be invited as a global board member of the Global Customer Experience Professional Association. And today I'm serving for four years now and thoroughly enjoy my giving back and at the same time being a thought leader in this space.
Now, the final tweak or pivot I did was about some two years ago. It was the author of my book, Innovate to Elevate. And the reason why I, in fact, initially I didn't like the idea, I even think of the idea of being an author.
Matt Egan ( .654) Mm-hmm.
.806) Thank Dr Francis Goh (
.035) But someone actually said to me, if one day that you need a way of things are, where are your assets? Where are your knowledge? I said, it's somewhere in the cloud. Yeah. But it's also in my laptop.
It sort of scared me because I didn't have a one place that I could put them together. And this all very useful assets and information and methodologies and success use cases that have done for my customers. But I didn't have a chance to share.
Matt Egan ( .912) Yeah.
.388) And I love to share and I want to share with people around me. So the book, the idea of the book came about, put them together in about half a year in a very short time, but the content were around four years of work.
And when I published in September last year, until now it's been launched in seven cities around the world. It will be translated in Spanish. We now, you know, putting the fine prints around that.
And I'm looking to launch this book in Vietnam next month and more countries to come. Matt Egan ( .89) Mm-hmm.
Matt Egan ( .386) Yes.
Yeah. Dr Francis Goh (
.348) So as you can see this story that I have, there's a lot of pivots going on, being an author that I think that I would, and finding that my final role right now as a data and AI vice president of NTT was also one of the interesting area where, you know, auto AI has been around for a couple of decades, but it really got into big motion when, when Gen.
AI came about about three years ago. And that was where everybody get began to see the benefit of day to day use what Gen. AI could do. Now, so, Matt Egan ( .798) Mm-hmm.
Matt Egan ( .448) Yes.
.488) Like everyone else, I was learning what it is, but I thought this is a very big area. AI is going to be with us for a long time or forever. It's just different flavor. It's just a technology to make us more efficient.
So instead of being studying or understanding it, I decided that I want to get into a role where I can be very, very indulgent and drench with real life problems, having clients with their problems, solving them with data strategy and AI strategy.
So again, this is really a story of my pivots along the way, picking up things that I didn't know at all, and at the same time getting very good at it. Matt Egan ( .629) Yeah.
Well, I mean, first of all, thank you. That was so insightful and interesting. We appreciate you sharing. I also think, you know, as human beings, we like to impose narrative onto chaos. like, don't, these pivots are all kind of leading you in the same direction, right?
It strikes me. You're someone who, again, if we go back to the beginning, you've got these technical skills, these business skills. You talked about it yourself. You want to solve problems. You want to continually learn. And it feels like in that sense, it's a straight line, right?
It's leading you from where you were to where you are. And I love that idea of all this learning and all this experience you've got, you want it to be in one place, right? You want to be able to share it.
So the book is such a cool symbol of that. So thank you. That was really interesting and insightful. I'm curious, along the way, you've had to have people in your professional life who've helped. to support you in making these changes.
So I wonder if you could tell us anything about a first or just any great boss or mentor that you've had along the way and maybe some things you've learnt. Dr Francis Goh (
.378) Yeah, in fact, good point, question about mentorship. I'm in a strong opinion that every one of us need one or many mentors because along the way we are trying to figure out ourselves in lives, in our career.
It's always helpful if we have someone to bounce ideas with. Matt Egan ( .428) Yeah, I agree.
Matt Egan ( .396) Yeah, for sure.
.588) Now in my life, I many mentors along the way. Some are more official than the rest. In fact, tomorrow I'm meeting a mentor for last 20 years. He's an ex-SIN executive for many big companies.
The last role was the president of Asia Pacific IBM, which he has about three billion US dollar responsibility. He's retired now, active in the startup scene, but⦠Matt Egan ( .978) Yeah.
.309) We catch up like every two, three months and just bounce ideas. And talking about mentorship, I myself become a mentor to many.
Now I don't seek mentees or put out there that I mentor anyone, but when I speak with someone and when I spend time with people, even customers, I'm very, very honored that even customers after having a dinner with me and sharing their lives, their challenges.
Some of them actually asked me if they could have some more time with me like once a month and just to share my thoughts. And I said, look, anytime, you know, I call that bounce ideas. then it's kind of like, it's really non-invasive.
It's very casual, but I know that, you know, the opinion that I've shared in the challenges that they face, particularly one of my customers who had just moved to another country, different culture. We talk about it because I myself have worked in it. Matt Egan ( .424) Yeah.
Matt Egan ( .467) Mm.
.158) eight different cultures before and he found my advice quite useful. Matt Egan ( .32) Okay.
.65) Yeah, no, it's amazing. And I completely agree. Like it's always a value exchange. Right. And that's, you you know, mustn't one mustn't think of, of being a, a manager, a mentor as something where, you know, energy's been sucked from you.
Actually that process of bouncing, as you described it, is really valuable for all parties. So thank you so much for sharing that. Really appreciate it. Quite frankly, this has been a very exciting and positive conversation. Too positive, right?
So now we're going to move on to section two, which we call first fails because we can't only be here for the good stuff. And I know, Francis, that you agree that we learn a lot from mistakes. Right.
So I wonder if you could tell us something, if you wouldn't mind, about the first big mistake that comes to mind when I ask you that question. Dr Francis Goh (
.089) Well, there many sort of mistakes, hiccups in our lives. mean, I just like anyone, I believe that none of us are short of challenges.
Well, I think one of them I could notably share, you see, I talk about anyone should seek an opportunity, whether you are in a corporate or you are in whatever capacity, an opportunity to do Matt Egan ( .826) Yeah.
.118) something on your own, like as a business, as an entrepreneur or intrapreneur. You don't have to leave your corporate, but you should take an opportunity to use, to start from an idea to a prototype to a product with a team of course.
And then you can realize that, wow, that's kind of like the, what you can learn so much about, you know, rapid prototyping, design thinking, agile scrum, all these methodologies that I talk about in my book are extremely useful in Matt Egan ( .43) Mm-hmm.
Yep, yep, yep. Dr Francis Goh (
.632) bringing something to life. One of the things that I sort of looking back, I would have done differently was when I mentioned just now, I came out from corporate and begin to figure out what I wanted.
I think from the perspective of having a break is fine, which is a year of, you know, attending this and learning. But I would encourage anyone who decided, let's say to be an entrepreneur or intrapreneur to get yourself ready.
have a very methodical structure way to pick up knowledge and network building towards before the plunge. Because this time before the plunge, you probably will be in a very comfortable position in terms of your schedule, your family's support system, peers, financial systems.
They will provide you a much more soft landing. Matt Egan ( .632) Mm-hmm.
Matt Egan ( .464) Yeah.
Matt Egan ( .93) Yeah.
.974) That would be one of things that I think I'd at looking back. That would be something that I would do differently. Matt Egan ( .126) Yeah, yeah, amazing.
And again, such great advice, right? Because, you know, you're saying, take the plunge, make the decisions to do it, but, you know, take the time in advance to be prepared and get those structures around you.
wonder if, I mean, another question I love to ask, and it's sometimes a difficult question to answer, I wonder if that would be an example of the first time you realised something you thought you knew might actually be wrong. or if you have any other examples of that.
.35) Yes, Blen-T, before I give an example, I want to tell you a story where it relates to what the mindset of being very open-minded that we could be wrong.
Now, there was a time when I inherited the role as a president of a company, a global Japanese company, and my predecessor was an expat from that country as well. So when I joined as a Matt Egan ( .569) huh.
.814) pretty young in my mid-30s as a presidency of that role. I inherited a very big portfolio. The business was about 400 million US and we had 600 people driving that revenue. The culture was more hierarchical.
A lot of the major decisions were left, the final decisions were left to me. So often the deal structures and the deal approval would finally land on my lab. Matt Egan ( .122) Right.
.51) And I would be the one to make the final decisions. And in the process of that, I realized that there was very little discussion or very little pushback.
wanted them to, let's say if I were to say, hey, this is not a good deal, we should not be going. I wanted more diversified opinion and challenge me because I could be wrong, right?
So it took me about three months to tell my team, my direct reports that Matt Egan ( .885) Yeah.
.27) I could be wrong, the four words.
And I really meant it to a point where later on I began to realize that they are more open to share and challenge each other for the good of making the better decision, have more diversified view and not just on one person.
So that really changed the whole, I would say the mindset of everyone and the mind leadership style is extremely open-minded because we just one person and then our lens and experience are very⦠Matt Egan ( .204) Right.
.847) still very limited to where, what we have been through. It takes a group to make a better decision.
Of course, you know, to cutting off all the noise, that's where the experience comes is to ask the right questions, asking the right questions, evaluating the answers and balancing the, you know, the whole, all the various parameters.
These are the ones that, that a good leader needs to possess. So, so this, this story would sort of, Nick, sing quite nicely to your question about. Matt Egan ( .035) Yes.
Matt Egan ( .211) Yeah.
.082) there was a time that we could be wrong. But having that mindset would definitely help any leader going forward. Matt Egan (
.964) Yeah, no, for sure. think like and also I love the fact that you said because in the end when you're the president of that organization, you will make a decision because you have to make a decision. Right. And that's accountability.
But what you don't want is for people not to be comfortable telling you that you're wrong. Right. Like, like, like it's it's such a powerful thing for leaders to learn. So, yeah. So thank you so much, Francis. I appreciate you sharing that.
We're going to move on now because I can't believe how long we've been talking about a great time. Dr Francis Goh ( .298) Yes.
.838) to a section we call Quick Fire First. And this is where we get to know you a little bit beyond the professional veneer. And we do that by using our random question generator and asking you some less serious questions about your life.
So would you please pick a number between one and 15, Francis? Dr Francis Goh (
.518) Okay, it'll be fun. Dr Francis Goh (
.086) the number 1 to 15 my favorite number will be one and nine but let's start with one Matt Egan ( .69) number one.
Okay, this is an interesting question for you specifically, actually. And maybe you've got an answer already. What's the first place you would go if you could go anywhere in the world right now? Dr Francis Goh (
.614) Sorry, my network was pretty bad. I missed out the question. Matt Egan ( .083) okay.
That's fine. I'll just go for that again. What would be the first place you would go in the world if you could go anywhere right now? Dr Francis Goh (
.558) Can I ask a question or just I just have to take the end the question as it is because I was about to ask Matt Egan (
.646) You can take it anywhere you want, Francis. We're just trying to have a conversation here. So you can ask me if you want. That's fine. Dr Francis Goh (
.43) Okay, yeah, so professionally or personal perspective or both? Matt Egan ( .978) that's interesting.
That's interesting. Let's take it any way you want. I mean, I was thinking personal, but professional is kind of interesting, right? Because there's the cultural imperative, as you said. Dr Francis Goh ( .921) Okay.
.898) Yeah, so maybe I sort of like I I'm thinking too much about it. I even have the next question like how long is the period? Is it for a short period or long period? But anyway, let me just share.
mean, Japan is one of my most favorite country of visit because of the weather, the food culture and the cleanliness and the whole, things are so systematic and how things work. I also like the cuisine. So that's one of my favorite.
Matt Egan ( .118) Thank Matt Egan (
.979) Yeah.
Matt Egan ( .355) Yeah.
.726) country of the visit.
However, as a curious person, there are many places I want to go, but particularly one of them would be, I would say, Iceland, because I'm very interested in the nature, and Iceland has an extremely raw nature, as you can see, probably, like any part of the world.
So that would be one of the places that I'd really want to visit. Matt Egan ( .008) Yeah.
Matt Egan ( .924) Yes!
Matt Egan ( .79) Yeah.
.455) Yeah, and it's such an interesting way of framing the answer. So I appreciate you asking those questions, right? Because like going to Japan for like to work or to live kind of thing is different to going to Iceland to visit to see kind of thing.
And they're two different parts of our lives, right? So yeah, no, thank you for that. I really appreciate it. And I can't believe I'm going to say this, but we are actually moving into our final section. I'm in such a time.
So this is what we call first final thoughts. So. I'd love to hear from you, Francis, what would be the first piece of advice you would give to someone who is just starting out today? Dr Francis Goh (
.198) Okay, I would say that first of all recognize that the world is different compared to the last decade and even worse for the last few decades and moving forward the next 10, 20 years and 30 years the world will be extremely different from today.
What is consistent will be change. My advice will be anyone that's starting out the career is to have the mindset, starting with the mindset that accept change as the norm and has an extremely open minded view of the world.
Extremely curious to learn because things change a lot and you need to really not have a formative opinion or fixated about certain experience. Be extremely open minded as anything's possible.
But before any opinion that you want to give for anyone, It's important to deep dive and learn into it. And thank God today with the proliferation of information, it's pretty easy. There's too much information sometimes. It's easy to learn something fairly quickly.
The trick is how do you decipher from the noise and pick up what is really vital and relevant. So this will be the few advice I would think for anyone that starts out. Matt Egan (
.277) No, and it's such good advice as well. I I love that.
think we've got the title for the episode, right, which is, you know, accept that change is going to be the normality kind of thing moving forward, but also do the work, right, like understand things at a deep level and then regardless of what changes around it, you're able to influence and succeed.
That's such excellent advice and I really appreciate it. I can't believe I'm going to say this when I'm to get to our final question. Sometimes people find this difficult question, but Francis, what's the first project or achievement you would want to tell people about? What's your masterpiece?
As you look back, what's the first thing that would come to mind that you would want to tell people about from your career? Dr Francis Goh (
.972) Well, I think the proudest moments that I had personally is the day that my book was displayed in the National Library of Singapore. And Matt Egan ( .772) Yeah.
Wow. That's cool. Dr Francis Goh (
.188) across all the bookshops in Singapore as well, even in the higher institutions like the national universities and the polytechnics here. So it's a proudest moment for myself because the National Library in Singapore has existed almost forever, at least before I was born.
It's a place that we grew up, a place that we went there to our first encounter of our first book. It's a place where our parents would say, you need to be good in studies, books is the answer, so to speak. Matt Egan ( .898) Yes.
Matt Egan ( .096) Yeah.
.894) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr Francis Goh (
.334) So the libraries are special place for us in terms of our development of knowledge. So we used to go there to borrow books and look out for authors.
So the day when National Library displayed my book on the shelves, it's somewhat extremely one of the proudest moment, I would say. It's a moment that I'm proud of myself and also proud of my country that I am representing. Matt Egan ( .394) Yeah.
.63) So most of all, the book is there not for myself, the book is there for me to share my knowledge and to inspire people. Matt Egan (
.69) Yeah, I love that. I love that answer. Dr Francis Goh (
.192) Matt, I'm going to take my book one second so I'm going to have a cut and then come back here. Matt Egan ( .035) Okay.
This has not happened before on this show, but I love it. Why not? Let's share in this moment of deep pride. Dr Francis Goh ( .094) Right.
This part, we can, can later snip and come back. Okay. Now I like to take the opportunity to share my book, which I talk so much about innovate to elevate, you know, hopefully this turns out the right.
This is the book that I have put a lot of my, I would say my last couple of years of knowledge and life. It's available on Amazon and it's, and the title is specially chosen is innovate to elevate. want to inspire people to continue to innovate.
Matt Egan ( .362) Yeah Matt Egan (
.608) yet.
.75) from ideation to products. And the subtitle I carefully chose is also called A Journey Through Mindset and AI to Enhance Custom Experience.
Now I'd like to take the opportunity to read just a couple of words from the opening of it because I put a lot of thoughts in that to the reader. So it goes like this. To you, the reader of this book, ignite the spark of curiosity within you.
Matt Egan ( .137) Love it.
Matt Egan ( .046) Go ahead.
.544) I hope you will find inspiration to elevate your thinking. Challenge the status quo and leverage all the transformative power of innovative thinking. This shall unlock doors to a future limited only by your imagination. Ladies and gentlemen, innovative elevate. It's a bit of commercial.
Matt Egan ( .198) I love that.
Thank you. Yeah, no, well, that's, know, we're here to talk about your ideas and you've shared so generously. So my thanks to you, Dr. Francisco.
And thank you to all of you for watching or listening to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in IT and learn from them what makes them tick by focusing only on their firsts. And I think you'll agree we've learned a lot today.
I have been your host, Egan, asking you to enjoy. like and subscribe wherever you are. And if you are an interesting person in IT, do let us know. You might be the next first person.
But the final word I have to give is my word of sincere thanks to our wonderful guest today, Dr. Francis Scott. So thank you, Francis, and goodbye. Dr Francis Goh (
.098) Thank you, my pleasure. Thanks, you Matt and good luck. Take care.
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