We meet Mel Migrino, an infosec and cybersecurity titan who in late career has pivoted to advocacy. Mel tells us how she got into software development in order to make money, then pivoted to infosec after a friend told her it was an opportunity, before becoming a business leader. She describes the powerful influence of her mentor, a true 'dragon lady' who could see that Mel's technical chops complemented her own strategic and business knowledge. Mel describes her career path and how it has been driven by boredom: when she feels like she is no longer learning she moves on. And she talks about how gratitude for her own success motivates her to act as an advocate both for the digitally excluded and for female leaders in cyber security.
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Matt Egan ( .252) Hello, hello, hello.
Welcome to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in IT and learn from them what makes them tick by focusing only on their firsts. I'm your host, Matt Egan, asking you to enjoy, like and subscribe wherever you find us.
And if you are an interesting person in IT, let us know. You might be the next first person. The next voice you will hear will be today's guest. She is Mel Migrino.
Mel is enjoying a varied and garlanded career and currently holds multiple, including chairperson, country manager and CIO. She leads commercial businesses and also membership organizations. Mel is definitely one of the most interesting people in IT and we're delighted to have her as a guest on First Person.
So Mel, welcome. And first up, what's the first thing people should know about you? Mel Migrino (
.716) Yeah, so I guess first off, so hi Matt, so hi everyone. So happy to be here. So first thing people should know about me, well, I'm actually championing gender inclusion.
And I would also want to let you know that I am actually having my own column now that revolves around technology and cybersecurity. So this is under tech news pH. So the name of my column is Melgoriddim. Matt Egan ( .946) Thanks Mel Migrino (
.252) So that's fitting you. Matt Egan ( .036) there you go.
Okay, wonderful. So like, mean, we'll get into this because one of the reasons I really wanted to speak to you is all of these interesting things you do and definitely the work you do for gender equality in this industry. It's very important. It's amazing that you do it.
And I cannot believe the many different things that you managed to fit into your week, including now it turns out being an author as well. So thank you. And let's get into the conversation, which starts with what we call First things first.
So this is where we like to get to know about, I guess, by understanding some of their first time. So Mel, I'd love to understand something about your first job in IT, your first job in this industry. Mel Migrino (
.502) Okay, so first job in IT, so I was like back then a business analyst in one of the universal back. So that's where it practically all started. And then from there, it just pans off to like assuming different IT roles.
So basically I did not start in InfoSec. It's really IT, the realm of applications development. Matt Egan ( .326) Okay.
Matt Egan ( .18) Mm-hmm.
Matt Egan ( .81) Mm.
Matt Egan ( .574) Yeah.
And what, what, what brought you to that point? Like how did you get into that applications development thing?
Like, you know, was that something, you know, did you study, technology or was it just that you were in work and this was the thing that kind of spoke to you as an interesting area to be in. Mel Migrino (
.19) Well, because I graduated BS Information Technology. So I guess like you graduated that. So back then, right, because I'm a bit old now, so I guess back then. only thing like I wanted to go to technology, right?
You can either go through like on the hardware path, like you can assume different roles, but I chose to be more on the software side. Matt Egan ( .179) Hey Mel Migrino (
.006) development and then eventually I wanted like to you know assume different roles and get a leadership role as well within the AppDev realm. Matt Egan (
.81) And like, so you studied information technology, that, I'm old, I suspect I'm older, you know, that wasn't necessarily the most obvious thing to do. Was that because you saw the potential in the technology industry or just something that you had a passion for? Mel Migrino (
.25) you know, I wanted to earn more money. So that's why, just kidding. Well, because I guess like, because I was really like young back then, right? So I wanted to see like a fulfillment of what I work hard during college days. hence, is the practically chose.
Matt Egan ( .594) There you go.
The best reason. Matt Egan ( .608) Yeah, no, completely.
I've said this previously on episodes of this when I studied English and Drama at the university, which is completely useless. And my roommate was studying technology. And on the first day I met him, he said, I'm going to earn lots of money.
And he did earn lots of money. So it worked out. then you're in work, you're doing the applications development, but InfoSec at some point becomes⦠the career. So what was it about the security side of things that that draw you drew you into it would you say?
Mel Migrino (
.874) Yeah, so I guess just trying to like reminisce like what happened before. So I started in the applications development. So I assumed different roles. did BA work, business analysis work. I also did software testing as well.
I also did like, well, back then they call it something like a process quality assurance. But now it's really more of like a technology design review, something like that. And then so I⦠I think like after like three to four years in the applications development.
So that's when I heard like a good friend of mine told me, hey Mel, do you know that there is such a thing as information security? Then I said, information security, my gosh, what I said. about, right?
And then this friend told me, actually, there is already a standard, right? It was back then like a British standard. It hasn't evolved to an ISO standard back then.
Then he said, maybe you want to like this British standard on information security and see if it's something that you want. Why? Because it's practically a niche in the industry. If you start here, if you do your work very well, right?
If you played the field very good, then you can progress all the way up. So that's when my interest, you know, got very, very curious about Infosec.
And then, yeah, so basically, know, Matt, I leverage my skills in the applications development to actually be ahead of the game in Infosec. You know why? Because that time, the people, at least I'm speaking locally, I mean, within my country.
So that time, most of the people who ventured into InfoSec, their background is really more on hardcore processes. They came from most manufacturing companies, while I myself, I came from purely technical background. I went to different companies and then still doing IT work.
But in InfoSec, that time, there is, I would say, a challenging domain. Matt Egan ( .938) Mm-hmm.
.528) to majority of the InfoSec, which is the software development, acquisition, and maintenance domain. I can clearly remember the name, the one in ISO and the one in British standards. Wherein, in my case, that became my core competence.
And then all the other domains, I find it quite just a bit easy now. Matt Egan ( .999) Yeah.
Matt Egan ( .938) Yeah.
Matt Egan (
.614) Yeah, so it was, it was, you know, there was a, there was a good reason for you to make that move. you had the skills that were lacking in that sector, but actually once you got there, you found that it was, it was useful for you.
think one of the things we always find interesting is, is, is, know, we talk to people from more on the world and I will tell you that that experience you had was exactly the same in the U S and the UK, wherever, because it went from security being locks and bolts to being understanding.
like the impact on software of attacks and hacks and all of those kind of things. you know, so those application development skills were extremely important, but it's amazing that you had both the thought yourself to go into that.
But you had somebody to tell you, and that's something we like to ask at this stage as well is, you know, everyone needs a helping hand along the way. You described there a friend giving you good guidance and I guess mentorship.
And I know that in your career now, it's very important to you to mentor and lead others. Was there a great boss or mentor or leader of this part of your career that helped you with that transition and to develop in that way?
Mel Migrino ( .852) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's when I first met my first Dragon Lady boss, you know. Well, it's actually like a Dragon Lady boss, but much respect for her. So, well, even until now, she's still there. So she's one of the managing directors in Accenture Philippines and Universe Center.
Matt Egan ( .39) Hehe Mel Migrino (
.094) She is really into technology, but not really into the information security. But what I really like about her, what I eventually admired about her is she doesn't know that time, that time.
She didn't know anything about information security, but she is definitely a very good strategist and is a very strong business acumen. So that's when she mentored me and then learned a lot of things from her. Matt Egan ( .082) Mm-hmm.
Matt Egan ( .782) Yeah, it's amazing.
Amazingly important thing as well. I think in this space that, you know, you can have all the technical skills, but you need to be able to map it to broader context of what the, the organization is trying to achieve, right? What the business needs are.
because we have, this comes up all the time in these conversations, right? The person who develops amazing technology, but it doesn't solve the problem for the business, right? That's what, what's needed to happen. and.
know, it's very cool that you had this person who presumably was smart enough to understand that she didn't have the technical skills but she had the strategy and maybe to some extent, Mel, you were able to help her a little bit because you had some technical knowledge that could support her.
.846) Yes, because practically, Matt, she knows the business in and out of something like that. And then she also mentioned a very strong acumen on business.
what she told me is that, I mean, I can provide you better guidance taking off from an external perspective or how information security should actually work with the different stakeholders within the organization. Because as you know, ACA and Accenture, right, We're a really big IT multinational.
And then, then it will be like leverage on what you know, all those information security certifications, right? That you actually got at that time and actually apply it. it's like when you combine those two, yeah, you can actually create, you know, great things, amazing things for your organization.
Matt Egan ( .914) It.
Matt Egan ( .432) Yeah, definitely.
It's really important. And again, that's something that will never change. And also what will never change is a good leader, a good mentor understands their own, not weaknesses, but where they're strongest and where they're not strongest, it is able to support other people to grow in that way.
It's very cool. And I'm sure you've passed that on in your own working practice. So we have you now, you've made the move into Infosec, you have a great mentor. You really found what the path is for you.
Could you just quickly explain how you got from there to where you are today? What was the passage of your career? How did you move forward from your first kind of experiences in InfoSec? Mel Migrino (
.158) Yeah, so my first thing really in information security is back then with Accenture. And then I think after like what? Six to seven years, so I got bored. I got bored because I reached the point. I mean, I think I'm the person who continuously wanted to learn.
Don't get me wrong here, but I guess I reached the point there wherein I give more. Matt Egan ( .031) Yeah.
.576) rather than me learning new things. So I guess I reached that point.
So I think that's also my trigger point that maybe I wanted to move out and then try to, let's say, see if I can get a new role, a higher level of information security, which I actually did. So I work in large IT multinationals.
Matt Egan ( .134) Yay!
.646) And then that's when I actually tried, started to climb the executive ladder. And then concurrent with that, I also assumed some roles, executive roles as well in business continuity. And then I joined the, what do call this, the big four, big four auditing firm.
So I was one of the executives from Deloitte. Matt Egan ( .558) Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matt Egan ( .654) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
.0) So I was actually, I would say it was also like another milestone for me because that's when I started like majority of my speaking engagement, helping more people, helping more organizations until I slowly made the name, know, I slowly made the name in the local industry as well as within Southeast Asia.
So yeah, so I guess the rest is history. that's practically it. Matt Egan ( .074) Yeah.
.808) Yeah, no, but there's some really amazing tidbits in there, I think. Never underestimate the power of being bored because I think what you articulated beautifully, Mel, was it should be a value exchange, right? You should be learning as well as giving, right?
That's how you continue to move forward. And also, you strike me as someone who's managed their career very well, which is you don't have to be avariciously pushing people down or anything like that, but you're always looking for what's the next step for me to make.
And everyone's different in that sense. Everyone wants different things from a successful career. moving into one of the big four, recognizing that you need to build a name for yourself. This is all extremely successful and very useful information for our audience, but it's too successful now.
So we're now going to move on to our next section, which we call First Fails, because we're not just here for the good stuff. And we learn more from our mistakes. We want to hear about when things didn't go so well.
So I wonder if it's possible, if you have an answer to this, like if there is a first big mistake that you sometimes think about or a mistake that you feel like you've learned from throughout. Mel Migrino (
.014) Yeah, so I guess there's so many, know. So many. We just try to share one. Okay. I think the first one is because before, right, I used to trust people easily.
So, and then of course you trust people easily, you know, without doing so much of your homework, right? So sometimes the, you know, at the end of the day, Matt Egan ( .57) You're right.
Matt Egan ( .168) Right.
.33) whatever outcome it is, it could screw up. So I guess looking at me now, so you need to testify for me to trust you.
But at least now, like over the years and up to now, I mean, I can always be nice to everyone because it's part of my job. But of course, there are also people that I feel so, so authentic about with, genuine about it.
But of course, at end of the day, think there is still something like a filter that you wanted to know Matt Egan ( .45) Mhm.
.114) more about the person, the personality, the profile, et cetera. So that at least you would know how much of the engagement you want, right? Yeah. I mean, of like calculated risk, I would rather say. Matt Egan ( .882) Yeah.
.128) Yeah, there you go. That's an infosec way of saying it. No, but it's completely correct, I think. With the best will in the world, in the best workplace and the best environment, there's still politics everywhere. And I think something that we learn as our careers develop.
And you said it beautifully there, Mel. It's not that you don't have to be nice. You have to be nice and respectful. But you have to always kind of presume, just put yourself in the other person. What's the other person's need, agenda? Mel Migrino ( .73) Yeah.
Mel Migrino ( .598) Cheers.
.906) And to your point, you will find people with whom you really connect and you build a deep, trustful engagement. But that doesn't have to be everybody. It can't be everybody. So like a little bit of guarded nature is probably very useful. And I wonder if that fits.
The next question I was going to ask, which is the first time you realised something you thought you knew might not be right. Like, has there ever been a point where something you firmly believed turned out not to be true throughout your Mel Migrino (
.974) Okay, I what I wanted to share there is a bit of a twist. So I thought it's something that it's, you know, that it's wrong but technically it just created like a good outcome.
well, I cannot disclose like which company is this but when a team tried to resolve, you know, a cyber attack. okay. because before it was all information security, but over the years it transitioned more to something bigger, cyber security, because it also broadened the scope.
So we were trying to actually investigate for a cyber security incident, which according to our investigation is really more of an offshoot of a supply chain attack. Matt Egan ( .94) Uh-huh.
.374) So when we crafted our overall strategies, so the overall strategy was pretty, I would say comprehensive, or I would say massive in effect. Why? Because if it's a supply chain, so the perspective back then is to look at your upstream as well as your downstream service providers.
But of course, when we presented this to the top management, they say, You know, it's like the scope, right? The scope of the investigation, as well as the scope that you wanted to validate and show that all connections are clean, et cetera, right? It's so big, you know?
This is only the in-signal. So basically, the lens coming from our senior management or top management perspective is just this. But to us, because it is supply chain, right? So we needed to expand. So it came to the point that we needed to supplement.
Matt Egan ( .698) Yes.
.014) or complement our capabilities with the third party experts. And I felt so relieved actually back then, why? Because we almost have the same, almost have the same, like 90 % the same recommendation and how we assess the impact, the incident.
And if we wanted to do like immediate remediation as well as⦠long-term remediation. This is more or less should be the scope, the coverage and the approach. Yeah. So that is for me is more, huh, okay, see, I told you so.
I told you so I'm telling the truth. Matt Egan ( .614) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, that's always a nice moment, although frustrating that you had to go through that process to get there, right? And I guess what it reflects a lot of is that you've lived through this change, like to your point, where it's gone from infosec to cybersecurity.
And the scale and the impact of the problem and the solutions has completely changed. And I suppose guiding the business through that is part of the role, It's part of what you have to do. Mel Migrino ( .214) See Matt Egan (
.756) Amazing.
Thank you, Mel, so much. We're going to move on now to a small section that we like to call Quick File First. And this is where we try to get to know you a little bit behind your professional veneer.
And we do that by using a piece of patented technology called our random question generator. So Mel, if you could please pick a number for me between 1 and 15. That would be terrific. Mel Migrino ( .23) number nine?
Matt Egan ( .474) Number nine.
I love this question. What is, Mel, the first thing you would buy, what is the first thing you would buy if you won the lottery and you had all the money you could possibly spend? Mel Migrino (
.534) You're what is it? Mel Migrino (
.174) okay, I will buy the patekha. Matt Egan ( .747) okay!
.732) Because I like it. Matt Egan (
.994) Sure, yeah why not? Good answer. Okay, let's go again because that was⦠Could you give me another number between 1 and 15? Mel Migrino ( .678) Six.
Matt Egan ( .766) number six.
Tell me something if you can. I'm really glad this one came up because we did meet your dog before the recording. Tell me something Mel, if you could, about your first pet, the first animal that was in⦠Mel Migrino (
.254) Yeah, what does somebody say? Mel Migrino ( .15) Yeah, yeah.
So my first pet is a yellow Labrador. Yeah. His name is Zeb. Yeah, so, so big, you know. Then he, because he's so big, he ate a lot, then got heart attack. Matt Egan ( .334) There you go.
.858) But what a lovely dog a Labrador is, right? Very friendly and loyal and kind of⦠Mel Migrino ( .418) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was back like, I don't know, like maybe more than a decade ago. Yeah. Matt Egan (
.624) Okay, there you go. Well, I'm glad we got to meet Zeb as well then. Okay, cool. Let's move on Mel, because I really do want to get into some of the work that's very important to you.
And I feel like in our final section, first and final thoughts, we're going to get to some of those pieces of wisdom.
So one of the questions I always like to ask is, what is, the first piece of advice you would give to someone who's just starting out now? Mel Migrino (
.452) I think just like very, very basic. So you just need to be yourself, but I guess it's not to the point that you will become so comfortable because it's not gonna fly.
So you need to be yourself, but you also need to have, but you also need to do your homework, right? You need to do your homework.
So doing your homework will also entail like, you know, knowing what's⦠what's within your environment, what's within your ecosystem, and try to leverage first and foremost with your, you know, try to leverage from your strength.
Because it's practically your strength, your knowledge, your capabilities will actually deliver you through the different challenges. Matt Egan (
.872) Yeah, so you have to be yourself. You can't sort of map to being someone else and tend to be someone else, something like that.
You have to be your true authentic self, which I think is very important in some of the other work you do around things like gender diversity and things like that. But you've also got to do the work, right?
Like you have to have the core knowledge to be able to to add value. Great advice. And I think moving on from that, you know, I'd love to ask you. Mel Migrino ( .816) Yeah.
.028) know, what's the first project, the first achievement that you'd want to tell people about? What's your, what's your career masterpiece? You know, what's the thing that matters the most to you, would you say? Mel Migrino (
.044) Hmm, the first one, right? So, okay. So I guess if it's the first one, really that matters to me is the, I think, for three consecutive years, successful ISMS certification of Accenture Philippines Delivery Center during my time as executive.
Yeah, because I believe, as also attested by my senior executive back then, I really⦠Matt Egan ( .09) Yeah.
.524) I really contributed a lot. I really performed a pretty good job back then. Matt Egan ( .324) Yeah, excellent.
that's still like really, it's amazing how many times we asked that question and it is something from early in people's careers that they're the most proud of, right?
Because it's the thing that kind of proves to yourself, I think, that you can do it and also sets you on a path.
It's not strictly a first question, Mel, but I really do want to ask you about the work you do around gender equality and leading that community of, instance, I know you lead an organization of female information security executives. Tell me about that.
Tell me why that matters to you and what you do. It'd be great to hear. Mel Migrino (
.398) Okay, yeah, so I lead WISAP, the Women and Security Alliance Philippines. our goal really is to develop a digital risk leaders. Well, of course, primarily female, but WISAP, we highly support gender inclusion. So we also support the progression as well, right, of the male practitioners.
In fact, for WISAP, more or less we have something like around 35 to 40 percent male base and these are practically like more of like male executives who are really championing as well inclusion and diversity so I guess that's the one that's very good about it.
WeSAP, I established WeSAP not because I wanted to say to the world or to flaunt that Hey, you know, maybe the reason why I'm known is because I have this community. Actually, no. I founded WISAP as my way to thank the Almighty.
for all the graces that he extended to me, to my mom, and to my family. So I think it's actually very personal. It's actually very personal. And then from there, like how we started like three years ago, we are already in our second term.
So basically we're entering our fourth year. So it is, you know, not only myself, but as well as my, you know, the members of the community, the officers, my fellow trustees as well.
We've been very proud members of WISAP and we can see that there are a number of non-profit organizations in our country, in the Philippines, and even outside of the Philippines.
They could be operating really outside of the Philippines or they are an international NPO operating in the Philippines who would really want to establish the partnership with us. Mel Migrino (
.53) So yes, and maybe because this is like, maybe I guess like the community service, know, community service that we have shown for the past three years at some point, you know, had its own ripple effect. Yeah.
So that's the reason why we are all like, you know, like very grateful about it. Matt Egan ( .666) Mm-hmm.
.874) Well, it's very inspirational. It's extremely cool that you're doing that. And yeah, no, just wonderful to watch from afar. And we're certainly rooting for you with that work because it's extremely important. So I'm going to move on, sadly, to our final question now.
But I wonder, for you, what's next? What's left to achieve? What are your goals? What's coming next for you, would you say? Mel Migrino (
.906) think now because I've been a cybersecurity leader for more than a decade. But I think cybersecurity leader for almost two decades. So you can guess my age.
I think now because if you look at my LinkedIn profile, while I am still very much into cybersecurity, Matt Egan ( .476) Hehehehehe Mel Migrino (
.182) I have also pivoted to business and to practically lead a business enterprise. And now I am with Google. And I strongly believe in the advocacy. Because we are a tech company, but we strongly run our own advocacy to fight against scams.
And I believe that this is very much aligned with with what I wanted to do as well. So I wanted to see a bigger or a greater campaign advocacy against scams and fraud.
See how more and more Filipinos can be digitally enabled and be digitally confident every time that they do online transaction. And of course to educate them as well.
especially on the different facets of scams and how scams can actually be an entry point to them, specifically the less privileged ones, for them to be, you know, like a victim of human trafficking because technology plays a crucial role, you know, within the chain of or within the ecosystem of human trafficking.
Matt Egan ( .19) Yeah.
Yeah. Wow. Often when I ask that question, people say, you know, I'd like to get to the next level or I'd like to retire. Mel, I don't think we've had an answer that's quite as inspirational and important as you just gave there.
So thank you so much and good luck with all of that. It's incredibly important.
My thanks to Mel Magrino and thanks to you all for watching or listening to First Person, the show where we meet the most interesting people in IT and learn from them what makes them tick by focusing only on their firsts.
I have been your host, Matt Egan, asking you to enjoy, like and subscribe wherever you find us. And if you're an interesting person in IT, do let us know. You might be the next first person.
But for now, it just remains for me to say goodbye and thank you so much to Mel Migrino.
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